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ZMT zurich med tech

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  2. Sim4Life
  3. Analysis & Postprocessing
  4. How do we put electrodes on the skin surface?

How do we put electrodes on the skin surface?

Scheduled Pinned Locked Moved Analysis & Postprocessing
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  • G gotou

    image 1.png image 2.png As shown in the attached image, the electrodes are flat, resembling a plate, which causes them to float off the body. How can I modify the placement so that the electrodes conform to the surface of the body, as they would in a real-world scenario?

    G Offline
    G Offline
    gc00
    wrote on last edited by
    #2

    @gotou As far as I know there is not a way to place them automatically, unless they are small cylinders. There is the “project on surface” option that can be useful.
    I used to place them manually with the “bend” option, even though is a little bit time consuming.

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    • H Offline
      H Offline
      halder
      ZMT
      wrote on last edited by halder
      #3

      Hi @gotou, I believe you have written to s4l-support, and we are working giving sending you a final project with all the questions you have sent. But regarding this specific question I am adding gifs showing the steps.

      (a) Open File then Preferences and ensure within "Modeling " ensure disable triangle mesh model picking option is disabled. Might need to restart Sim4Life in case it is not.
      Sim4Life_a6ohVdJHVz.png

      (a) Create the blocks on the xy plane and mesh the solids (remesh the block if necessary)
      Sim4Life_YsNKKJJ6BR.gif

      (b) Use Surface Projection ensure the surface you want to project is selected first followed by the target you want to project onto.
      Picture1.gif
      c331f900-d4e3-400c-9b3d-aa7cc58414fd-Sim4Life_iSJJUtbaj4.gif

      Look into section 2.2.7.8 of the Sim4Life manual. Hope this help, we will get back to you soon with the other answers. Thank you.

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      • G Offline
        G Offline
        gotou
        wrote on last edited by
        #4

        @halder
        Thank you for your reply.

        I read in the Sim4Life manual that a module needs to be purchased for remeshing. Since this option is not available in this image, does this mean that the module has not been purchased yet?

        saimessyu.png

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        • brynB Offline
          brynB Offline
          bryn
          ZMT
          wrote on last edited by
          #5

          You can achieve the same thing without the remesh tool.

          Option 1

          • before converting the brick (electrode) into a mesh, set the faceting settings (Mesh Tools -> Faceting) to increase the triangle resolution (e.g. 1-5mm). You cannot bend a single triangle: to approximate a curved surface the mesh needs to be refined somewhat

          Option 2

          • if you already converted the solid body to a triangle mesh, you can use Mesh Tools -> Subdivide -> choose linear subdivision
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          • G Offline
            G Offline
            gotou
            wrote on last edited by
            #6

            @bryn
            Thank you for your reply.

            I've managed to convert the solid object into a triangle mesh, but I'm having trouble applying the skin surface to it. Could you please guide me on how to proceed from this point?

            If possible, would you be able to provide a step-by-step GIF showing how to apply the skin to the mesh surface? I understand you may be busy, but your help would be greatly appreciated.

            Thank you very much for your time and assistance.

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            • brynB Offline
              brynB Offline
              bryn
              ZMT
              wrote on last edited by
              #7

              You don't "apply the skin" to something. The process suggested and described with gifs above is to "project" (Surface Projection) some entities (electrodes) onto some surface (e.g. the Skin).

              To activate the tool you need to select the electrodes AND skin (last selected entity) entities.

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              • brynB Offline
                brynB Offline
                bryn
                ZMT
                wrote on last edited by
                #8

                @gotou here is a video I created some time ago explaining how to project an entity onto the skin. The video creates a 3d text entity, but the same works for a brick.

                • create entity in XY plane
                • set faceting settings, e.g. edge length 1-5mm (Mesh Tools -> Edit Faceting)
                • convert to triangle mesh (Mesh Tools -> To Mesh)
                • select entity and Skin
                • start projection tool (Project -> Surface Projection)

                Youtube Video

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                • G Offline
                  G Offline
                  gotou
                  wrote on last edited by
                  #9

                  @bryn

                  Thank you for your response .

                  I followed the steps as shown in the video:

                  Create the XY entity
                  Set the facets
                  Convert to a mesh
                  Modify the skin as needed using the Mesh Doctor
                  Select the entity, then select the skin
                  Perform the projection
                  However, as shown in the attached image, the result appears to be piercing perpendicularly into the skin.

                  Do you know why this might be happening?

                  I look forward to your response
                  before projection.png
                  after projection.png

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                  • brynB Offline
                    brynB Offline
                    bryn
                    ZMT
                    wrote on last edited by bryn
                    #10
                    • did you try to move/pre-align the "XY entity" (using Move tool)? If yes, please don't do that.
                    • can you share the XY entity or run following script and share the output?
                    import XCoreModeling as xcm
                    
                    # assumes you select the XY entity, then run the script
                    xy_entity = xcm.GetActiveModel().SelectedEntities[0]
                    p1, p2 = xcm.GetBoundingBox([xy_entity])
                    print(f"p1={p1}, p2={p2}")
                    
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                    • G Offline
                      G Offline
                      gotou
                      wrote on last edited by
                      #11

                      >did you try to move/pre-align the "XY entity" (using Move tool)? If yes, please don't do that.
                      I was able to properly attach it to the surface by using projection without the move tool.

                      can you share the XY entity or run following script and share the output?
                      This was output.

                      p1=205 179 1799 , p2=205 229 1894

                      Why doesn't it work correctly when using the move tool?

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                      • brynB Offline
                        brynB Offline
                        bryn
                        ZMT
                        wrote on last edited by
                        #12

                        glad you managed :thumbs_up:

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                        • G Offline
                          G Offline
                          gotou
                          wrote on last edited by gotou
                          #13

                          @bryn
                          I figured out how to project a single object. However, how can I project a two-layer object onto the skin? The idea is that the first layer is gel, and the second layer is an electrode plate. I tried various methods, but I couldn't figure out how to do it in two layers. I tried projecting the gel onto the skin first and then placing an electrode plate the same size as the gel on top, but the projection was applied to both the front and back of the gel.
                          (Gel is yellow,electrode is purple)
                          スクリーンショット 2024-12-17 221340.png
                          スクリーンショット 2024-12-17 221807.png
                          スクリーンショット 2024-12-17 221716.png

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                          • brynB Offline
                            brynB Offline
                            bryn
                            ZMT
                            wrote on last edited by
                            #14
                            • the entities (in the XY plane) should be one above the other
                            • select BOTH entities, and the skin
                            • project both at the same time (pick position, edit angle, etc.)
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                            • brynB Offline
                              brynB Offline
                              bryn
                              ZMT
                              wrote on last edited by bryn
                              #15

                              image.png

                              with "automatic centering", the object will be partly inside the skin.
                              if you disable automatic centering, you can project all object above each other (and the skin)

                              image.png

                              05a7b607-a689-4121-a72b-ba811ac75e9e-image.png

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                              • G Offline
                                G Offline
                                gotou
                                wrote on last edited by gotou
                                #16

                                @bryn @gc00 @halder
                                Thank you so much, You've been very helpful !

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